Votre avis sur l'exécution de Nick Berg

SaMcAi a dit:

Oui... surtout dans un pays comme l'Irak... a qui va revenir les puits pétroliers du Sud ? Qui gardera Bagdad ? A qui reviendra le "problème" Kurde ?
Une séparation n'est pas possible je pense... ou si elle est faite se passera mal... se serait p-e possible en fédéralisant comme en Belgique mais bon... chaque régions voudra se séparer des autres (ceux du Sud ont le pétrole, pas besoin du reste) (les Kurdes resteraient bien entre eux, pas besoin du reste...)
Ca peux paraitre contradictoire mais bon... ca me parait plutot logique comme raisonement...

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cvmz0r [hqhq a dit:

]
Je crois que les irakiens ont assez d'expériences, zont des siècles d'empire, de dynasties, etc. derrière eux, c'est pas des américains qui le feront la leçon à ce sujet

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17 Anomalies Surrounding Death Of Nick Berg

1.Arab linguists have said the man posing as the Jordanian Zaraqawi did not speak with a Jordanian dialect. Others have suggested the man reading the written statement may not have been a native speaker of Arabic.

2.Zaraqawi was missing one leg and had been outfitted with an artificial leg that did not fit or function properly. He was unable to walk or stand normally with his ill-fitting limb. No man in the group showed evidence of such an infirmity.

3.Numerous indigenous sources have said Zaraqawi was killed by a US helicopter attack months ago when he was unable to move quickly enough to escape the targeted house. While others managed to exit the house in time to survive, he died in the collapsed building.

4.As any surgeon will testify, the alleged beheading was a fake. A beheading would result in a tremendous amount of spurting blood. There would have been blood everywhere had an actual beheading taken place. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner. Furthermore, the cut was simply too neat to have been done crudely and with such amazing speed by a man wielding a knife. Anybody who has ever carved a turkey knows there is something wrong with the supposed beheading. The suspended head looks more like Berg had been neatly beheaded by a guillotine.

5.The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would have continuing wearing a US custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One is forced to speculate as to whether there was an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, thusly preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb.

6.Several of the men in the film were fat by Iraqi standards. If they were Feyadeen or mujahadeen, they probably have been living underground since the first days of the occupation. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been shown on news stories as they have marched and demonstrated. One would be hard pressed to point out a single fat man among these thousands.

7.Some men had what can only be described as pasty-white hands. Once again, one would be hard pressed to find Arab men with pasty-white hands.

8.The lack of spurting blood suggests Berg was already dead at the time of the alleged decapitation. It is possible Berg's dead body was displayed with his head already partially or totally severed. In any case, he almost certainly was killed before the staged beheading. If so, it suggests the captors had no stomach for an actual beheading of a living person, and they opted to fulfill their assignment quietly and with the least amount of gore.

9.The scream that is heard has been interpreted as a woman's scream by many viewers. Videotape cognoscenti have further said the scream was amateurishly added to the tape.

10.The U.S. government translation of one statement made on the film is: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" This is a falsification. The actual statement urged fellow insurgents to get off their hind ends and do something. One assumes the translator being used by the US military is a native speaker of Arabic, so this cannot be explained as an innocent flub. This suggests the US government wanted to inject an alleged al- Qaeda group into the murder of Nick Berg.

11.Iraqis who have seen the videotape on Arabic news broadcasts are universally saying the men in the film are not Iraqis. Are they saying this partly because the speaker does not employ an Iraqi dialect? Where does their certainty come from?

12.Firearms experts have stated the AK-47 carried by one man was a "Gilal." This actually is an Israeli-made weapon that improves on the famous AK- 47. Feyadeen and other insurgents almost universally use AK-47s.

13.The man in the videotape who is purported to be Zarqawi is wearing a gold ring. This is absolutely proscribed by Islamic law.

14.The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. On April 1, an e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, was sent to the family of Nick Berg. It stated that Ms. Payne had located Nick, and he was currently in custody of the US military. We have to conclude that either the email was bogus or the US military has been lying.

15.The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. The chances a terrorist cell would be using this same chair are minimal at best.

16. The man on the far left standing at Parade Rest? This seems further evidence the raises suspicions that these men were NOT Arab faction Terrorists! Parade Rest is also - and would be a REFLEX action - that is TRAINED into Military personnel and becomes a HABIT!

17. The Time set on the Video is indicative to 24 hourtime and most Videos have a 2 stage setting one in regular standard time, ie: am-pm and one for 24 hr. time or MILITARYTIME! Why would Terrorists find it relevant to set their time to Military Time? Would it be more likely that a US intel or military person or officer would have their video camera set to Military Time out of reflex of training?

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AcidBird a dit:

Je n'ai pas tout lu mais je m'étonne qu'il y ait autant d'avis divergent ... quelque soit les raisons qui ont mené à ce CRIME car il faut préciser que c'en est un, et de sang froid, AUCUNE ne justifie une telle barbarie à mon sens. Ils ont prit un innocent, qui voulait peut-être aider l'irak à se reconstruie (sans passer par la "fillière officielle", ce qui était surment à l'avantage des irakiens mais on s'égare) et l'ont purement et simplement condamné sans procés.

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AcidBird a dit:

Après, on pourra dire que des civils irakiens meurt également, et patati et patata ... et je serai tout à fait d'accord mais JAMAIS tu ne verras les states diffuser FIEREMENT les images d'une éxécution sommaire d'un civil (faut au moins leur laisser cela).

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AcidBird a dit:

Il ya des tortures d'irakien, on voit comme les states en sont fiers ... ils ont tout fait pour étouffer l'affaire et font maintenant leur mea culpa (sans doute bidon mais ils ont le mérite de le faire malgré tout).

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AcidBird a dit:

Pour moi, c'est la qu'est toute la différence. D'un coté il y a un regret qui est exprimés pour les pertes civils et les exactions (même si cela ne les stopperas pas, faut pas rêver, une guerre reste une guerre), de l'autre il y a la fierté d'avoir tué un civil ... Si certains ne sont pas capables de faire la différence, c'est bien triste ...

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Disizzzz a dit:

Voila des nouvelles infos sur cette exécution que j'ai trouvé sur un forum:

17 Anomalies Surrounding Death Of Nick Berg

1.Arab linguists have said the man posing as the Jordanian Zaraqawi did not speak with a Jordanian dialect. Others have suggested the man reading the written statement may not have been a native speaker of Arabic.

2.Zaraqawi was missing one leg and had been outfitted with an artificial leg that did not fit or function properly. He was unable to walk or stand normally with his ill-fitting limb. No man in the group showed evidence of such an infirmity.

3.Numerous indigenous sources have said Zaraqawi was killed by a US helicopter attack months ago when he was unable to move quickly enough to escape the targeted house. While others managed to exit the house in time to survive, he died in the collapsed building.

4.As any surgeon will testify, the alleged beheading was a fake. A beheading would result in a tremendous amount of spurting blood. There would have been blood everywhere had an actual beheading taken place. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner. Furthermore, the cut was simply too neat to have been done crudely and with such amazing speed by a man wielding a knife. Anybody who has ever carved a turkey knows there is something wrong with the supposed beheading. The suspended head looks more like Berg had been neatly beheaded by a guillotine.

5.The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would have continuing wearing a US custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One is forced to speculate as to whether there was an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, thusly preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb.

6.Several of the men in the film were fat by Iraqi standards. If they were Feyadeen or mujahadeen, they probably have been living underground since the first days of the occupation. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been shown on news stories as they have marched and demonstrated. One would be hard pressed to point out a single fat man among these thousands.

7.Some men had what can only be described as pasty-white hands. Once again, one would be hard pressed to find Arab men with pasty-white hands.

8.The lack of spurting blood suggests Berg was already dead at the time of the alleged decapitation. It is possible Berg's dead body was displayed with his head already partially or totally severed. In any case, he almost certainly was killed before the staged beheading. If so, it suggests the captors had no stomach for an actual beheading of a living person, and they opted to fulfill their assignment quietly and with the least amount of gore.

9.The scream that is heard has been interpreted as a woman's scream by many viewers. Videotape cognoscenti have further said the scream was amateurishly added to the tape.

10.The U.S. government translation of one statement made on the film is: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" This is a falsification. The actual statement urged fellow insurgents to get off their hind ends and do something. One assumes the translator being used by the US military is a native speaker of Arabic, so this cannot be explained as an innocent flub. This suggests the US government wanted to inject an alleged al- Qaeda group into the murder of Nick Berg.

11.Iraqis who have seen the videotape on Arabic news broadcasts are universally saying the men in the film are not Iraqis. Are they saying this partly because the speaker does not employ an Iraqi dialect? Where does their certainty come from?

12.Firearms experts have stated the AK-47 carried by one man was a "Gilal." This actually is an Israeli-made weapon that improves on the famous AK- 47. Feyadeen and other insurgents almost universally use AK-47s.

13.The man in the videotape who is purported to be Zarqawi is wearing a gold ring. This is absolutely proscribed by Islamic law.

14.The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. On April 1, an e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, was sent to the family of Nick Berg. It stated that Ms. Payne had located Nick, and he was currently in custody of the US military. We have to conclude that either the email was bogus or the US military has been lying.

15.The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. The chances a terrorist cell would be using this same chair are minimal at best.

16. The man on the far left standing at Parade Rest? This seems further evidence the raises suspicions that these men were NOT Arab faction Terrorists! Parade Rest is also - and would be a REFLEX action - that is TRAINED into Military personnel and becomes a HABIT!

17. The Time set on the Video is indicative to 24 hourtime and most Videos have a 2 stage setting one in regular standard time, ie: am-pm and one for 24 hr. time or MILITARYTIME! Why would Terrorists find it relevant to set their time to Military Time? Would it be more likely that a US intel or military person or officer would have their video camera set to Military Time out of reflex of training?

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Attention, je tiens à préciser que je ne cautionne pas ces propos, je les poste juste ici à titre d'information afin que chacun puisse se faire un avis... Merci de ne pas m'attaquer personnellemnt...

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Zaene a dit:

Ouiiiiiiii evidement cet envahisseur millenaire qui oprime la population d'un pays sous leurs joug depuis 1000 generations ...Ca fait pas 2 ans qu'ils sont la ... les "oppresseurs" et le dernier a pratiquer effectivement l'oppression et le massacre la-bas il s'appelait Saddam, Saddam Hussein.

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1vo - Wolf a dit:

Zaene a dit:

Ouiiiiiiii evidement cet envahisseur millenaire qui oprime la population d'un pays sous leurs joug depuis 1000 generations ...Ca fait pas 2 ans qu'ils sont la ... les "oppresseurs" et le dernier a pratiquer effectivement l'oppression et le massacre la-bas il s'appelait Saddam, Saddam Hussein.

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Mais on se demande qui a commencé cette guerre?
Qui a fait de Saddam Hussein ce qu'il est devenu?
Qui l'a fourni en armes afin qu'il envahisse le Koweit pour ensuite l'arrêter et mettre en embargo tout un pays, paradoxe, profit?
Qui l'a aidé a en arriver là?
Qui a inventé une histoire de missiles chimiques, qu'on savait qu'il avait mais qu'on n'a pas réussi à en trouver?
Qui a envahit ce pays et qui a d'abord protégé le ministére du pétrole avant toute autre chose?
Qui a commandé la reconstruction de ce pays déjà pauvre par l'embargo, alors que ce sont ces mêmes gens qui l'ont détruit!

Mais qui a donc fait ça? :?:

Si ce n'est pas le profit c'est qu'on n'a rien compris alors, si la video de Michael Moore a été censurée c'est sans doute pour quelque chose, la vérité? :idea:

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Zaene a dit:

Et ça ne change pas le fait que Saddam Hussein etait un monstre qu'il est tres profitable pour ce pays d'avoir eliminer.

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Zaene a dit:

1vo - Wolf a dit:

Zaene a dit:

Ouiiiiiiii evidement cet envahisseur millenaire qui oprime la population d'un pays sous leurs joug depuis 1000 generations ...Ca fait pas 2 ans qu'ils sont la ... les "oppresseurs" et le dernier a pratiquer effectivement l'oppression et le massacre la-bas il s'appelait Saddam, Saddam Hussein.

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Mais on se demande qui a commencé cette guerre?
Qui a fait de Saddam Hussein ce qu'il est devenu?
Qui l'a fourni en armes afin qu'il envahisse le Koweit pour ensuite l'arrêter et mettre en embargo tout un pays, paradoxe, profit?
Qui l'a aidé a en arriver là?
Qui a inventé une histoire de missiles chimiques, qu'on savait qu'il avait mais qu'on n'a pas réussi à en trouver?
Qui a envahit ce pays et qui a d'abord protégé le ministére du pétrole avant toute autre chose?
Qui a commandé la reconstruction de ce pays déjà pauvre par l'embargo, alors que ce sont ces mêmes gens qui l'ont détruit!

Mais qui a donc fait ça? :?:

Si ce n'est pas le profit c'est qu'on n'a rien compris alors, si la video de Michael Moore a été censurée c'est sans doute pour quelque chose, la vérité? :idea:

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Mais de quoi parles tu toi ? (outre que tu avance des theories fumeuses, possibles mais non prouvées)

Si meme ils avait ete la bas parce que leur President voulais du sable pour mettre autour de sa piscine, ça ne change rien au fait qu'ils ne sont pas la bas en tant qu'armée d'oppression. Par profit? Oui evidement, Comme n'importe quel autre acte poser par n'importe quel autre gouvernement !!! Au risque de te faire friser la crise cardiaque, le profit direct ou indirect est le SEUL motif d'action des gouvernants quels qu'ils soient d'ici ou d'ailleurs.

Je ne leur reconnais pas le droit d'avoir envahis un pays pour les motifs mensongés qu'il ont invoquer, personne ne le leur reconnais , dire "c'est pas jussssss" c'est enfoncer une porte ouverte, mais c'est fait ! Et ça ne change pas le fait que Saddam Hussein etait un monstre qu'il est tres profitable pour ce pays d'avoir eliminer, ni ne justifie un seul instant d'egorger un civil par pure vengeance.

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